印度是世界上歷史最悠久的國(guó)家之一，但印度的歷史卻不如日本、中國(guó)和伊朗受歡迎。這是為什么？
Why is India history not as famous as Egypt and China?
譯文簡(jiǎn)介
印度是世界上歷史最悠久的國(guó)家之一
正文翻譯
Why is India history not as famous as Egypt and China?
為什么印度的歷史不如埃及和中國(guó)有名？
為什么印度的歷史不如埃及和中國(guó)有名？
India has one of the oldest history in the world yet is not as popular as Japan,china , Iran. what do you think?
印度是世界上歷史最悠久的國(guó)家之一，但卻不如日本、中國(guó)和伊朗受歡迎。大家怎么看？
印度是世界上歷史最悠久的國(guó)家之一，但卻不如日本、中國(guó)和伊朗受歡迎。大家怎么看？
評(píng)論翻譯
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likes: 125
Egypt is more famous because the West had a fascination with Egyptology ever since Napoleon discovered the Rosetta Stone (and so do I!).
I don’t think Japanese or Chinese history is really that well known in the west to be honest.
Iran/persia typically had more influence in the west (Persian empire) and in the Islamic world as well, so that’s why it may be more well known.
埃及之所以更加出名，是因?yàn)樽詮哪闷苼霭l(fā)現(xiàn)了羅塞塔石碑以來(lái)，西方就對(duì)埃及學(xué)產(chǎn)生了濃厚的興趣（我也是如此?。?。
說實(shí)話，我認(rèn)為日本或中國(guó)的歷史在西方并沒有那么廣為人知。
伊朗/波斯通常在西方（波斯帝國(guó)）和伊斯蘭世界都擁有更大的影響力，所以這可能是它更為人所知的原因。
likes: 28
Not only that but Egyptian society directly influenced Greek, and the ancient Greeks and Romans both were fascinated with Egypt
不僅如此，埃及社會(huì)還直接影響了希臘社會(huì)，古希臘人和古羅馬人都對(duì)埃及非常著迷
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>I don’t think Japanese or Chinese history is really that well known in the west to be honest.
Weebs
“說實(shí)話，我認(rèn)為日本或中國(guó)的歷史在西方并沒有那么廣為人知?！?br /> 媚日死宅
原創(chuàng)翻譯：龍騰網(wǎng) http://m.mintwatchbillionaireclub.com 轉(zhuǎn)載請(qǐng)注明出處
likes: 13
They have a fantasized image of Japan and tbh they don't really care too much about their history, saying this as a former weeb lol.
他們對(duì)日本的形象充滿幻想，但是說實(shí)話，他們并不太關(guān)心日本的歷史。我是作為一個(gè)曾經(jīng)的“媚日者”說這句話的，笑。
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I wouldn't say people that are enthusiastic about egyptology *don't* have a fantasized image of Egypt
我不會(huì)說那些對(duì)埃及學(xué)充滿熱情的人“沒有”對(duì)埃及產(chǎn)生幻想化的印象。
likes: 6
Yeah, but there is still interest in their *history* but not the modern country per say, for Japan I would argue its the other way around.
是的，但人們?nèi)匀粚?duì)埃及的歷史感興趣，但并非對(duì)現(xiàn)代的埃及感興趣。對(duì)于日本，我認(rèn)為情況正好相反。
likes: 17
Egyptian Pharoh Tutakhamun who lived 4000 years ago studied about his Pyramid building ancestors who came 2000 years earlier to him.
So there you have it. Egypt stands out because of its recorded history. 6000 continuous years of written record. Only in the last 1500 years they went down. So not many cultures can compare with Egypt when it comes to historians interest.
India is famous for not keeping written records. Tamil which is the most recorded language in India starts it's record only from 300 bce at best. Sanskrit despite its rich literature never written down until recently
生活在4000年前的埃及法老圖坦卡蒙研究過他建造金字塔的祖先，那些祖先比他早了2000年。
所以你看，埃及之所以突出，是因?yàn)樗杏涊d的歷史。長(zhǎng)達(dá)6000年的連續(xù)文字記錄。他們只是在過去1500年才衰落。因此，在歷史學(xué)家的興趣方面，沒有多少文化可以與埃及相比。
印度則以不保存文字記錄而聞名。泰米爾語(yǔ)是印度記錄最多的語(yǔ)言，其記錄最早也只能追溯到公元前300年。梵語(yǔ)雖然擁有豐富的文學(xué)作品，但直到近代才被書寫下來(lái)。
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Well, Egypt & China have a lot more structural & tangible remains from the Bronze age unlike India.
I mean, Indus Valley Civilization was large & grand. But once it fell, we dont have anything tangible (temple or inscxtions or palaces etc) right till the Mauryan age. Thats 2000 years almost. Maybe more.
Yes, there is evidence of second Urbanization during the Magadhan phase, but nothing remotely as grand as say Pyramids or Collossus of Rhodes or hanging gardens of Babylon.
Also, think about it, the earliest pyramids were made around the time of the Indus Valley Civilization. Not only have they survived till today, but we still cannot make such large pyramids using modern technology. So the fascination With egypt atkeast is definitely warranted.
嗯，與印度不同，埃及和中國(guó)擁有更多青銅時(shí)代的結(jié)構(gòu)和有形遺跡。
我的意思是，印度河流域文明曾經(jīng)規(guī)模宏大。但一旦它衰落，直到孔雀王朝時(shí)期，我們就沒有任何有形的東西（寺廟、銘文或?qū)m殿等）了。那幾乎是2000年。甚至更久。
是的，有證據(jù)表明在摩揭陀時(shí)期出現(xiàn)了第二次城市化，但沒有任何東西能與金字塔、羅德島巨像或巴比倫空中花園相提并論。
而且，想想看，最早的金字塔大約在印度河流域文明時(shí)期建造。它們不僅保存至今，而且我們今天仍然無(wú)法使用現(xiàn)代技術(shù)建造如此巨大的金字塔。因此，至少對(duì)埃及的迷戀是絕對(duì)有道理的。
likes: 18
We can make such large pyramids with modern tech. How else did we build the Burj Khalifa?
Its just a waste of money. Even the egyptians ditched pyramids for something like the valley of the kings
我們可以用現(xiàn)代技術(shù)建造如此巨大的金字塔。要不然，我們是如何建造哈利法塔的呢？
這只是在浪費(fèi)錢。就連埃及人也放棄了金字塔，轉(zhuǎn)而建造像國(guó)王谷這樣的地方
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I'd say that the interest in China and Egypt is similar in the West, it's more about the aesthetic than some important part of their life
It's popularised through media like Indiana Jones and Kung Fu Panda, but Westerners do not necessarily take more interest in learning genuine history of these places or following Taoist principles
我想說的是西方對(duì)中國(guó)和埃及的興趣是相似的，更多的是關(guān)于審美，而不是他們生活中重要的組成部分。
它們通過像《奪寶奇兵》和《功夫熊貓》這樣的媒體作品而流行起來(lái)，但西方人并不一定會(huì)對(duì)學(xué)習(xí)這些地方的真正歷史或遵循道家原則產(chǎn)生更大的興趣。
likes: 6
Is china history really more famous than india?
中國(guó)的歷史真的比印度更有名嗎？
likes: 30
Famous? I dont know about that.
There is definitely a western fascination to the oriental mysticism. But that includes india too.
China, unlike India, was never fully controlled by the west. They could only create spheres of influence in certain areas. So maybe its more of a respectful curiosity about a culture covering a HUGE landmass.
India also was seen initially in the same light. With incredible fascination. The Europeans also poured over our ancient texts which influenced modern philosophy. But India lost its charm to the western orientalists possibly after completely capitulating to the British.
有名？我不太清楚。
西方人確實(shí)對(duì)東方神秘主義有著濃厚的興趣。但這其中也包括印度。
與印度不同，中國(guó)從未完全被西方控制。他們只能在某些地區(qū)建立勢(shì)力范圍。所以，也許這更多的是出于對(duì)一個(gè)覆蓋巨大陸塊的文化的好奇和敬畏。
印度最初也被以同樣的眼光看待。帶著難以置信的迷戀。歐洲人也仔細(xì)研究了我們的古代典籍，這些典籍影響了現(xiàn)代哲學(xué)。但印度在完全屈服于英國(guó)之后，可能就失去了對(duì)西方東方學(xué)家的魅力。
likes: 6
i don't know about Chinese history, but Chinese is famous because of Hollywood fascination of Chinese culture, king fu, kung fu panda. the famous Gabriel also wrote fictional story on ancient China , they also have huge pulation from
it's all about PR, if you have influence then it can happen. like people now try to learn about Korean and japanese history.
while I dia was famous in 19th century by scientists, who liked the philosophy of Upanishads, grammar of Sanskrit and later by hippies
我不了解中國(guó)歷史，但中國(guó)之所以出名，是因?yàn)楹萌R塢對(duì)中國(guó)文化的迷戀，功夫、功夫熊貓等等。著名的加布里埃爾（可能指某位作家）也寫過關(guān)于古代中國(guó)的虛構(gòu)故事，收獲了龐大的讀者群體。
這一切都與公關(guān)有關(guān)，如果你有影響力，這一切就可能發(fā)生。就像人們現(xiàn)在試圖了解韓國(guó)和日本的歷史一樣。
而印度在19世紀(jì)因科學(xué)家而聞名，他們喜歡《奧義書》的哲學(xué)、梵語(yǔ)的語(yǔ)法，后來(lái)又因嬉皮士而聞名。
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Not rly, in the 1800s India was heavily romanticised still. In fact orientalism was at its peak in the 1800s. Prior to British rule India was mysterious and intriguing though but after them a lot of ppl started thinking about India
并非如此，在19世紀(jì)，印度仍然被嚴(yán)重地浪漫化。事實(shí)上，東方主義在19世紀(jì)達(dá)到了頂峰。在英國(guó)統(tǒng)治之前，印度是神秘而有趣的，但在他們統(tǒng)治之后，很多人開始以不同的方式看待印度。
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Nah, who told you lM? All the stuff westerners know about China are panda, bamboos, great wall of china that's it
誰(shuí)告訴你的？西方人對(duì)中國(guó)的了解無(wú)非是熊貓、竹子、中國(guó)長(zhǎng)城，僅此而已。
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Indus valley civilisation is acknowledged by everyone as we have archaeological evidence to prove that.
But most don’t consider it as historic India. Ivs died or migrated out, modern day India has taken some influences from it but is not a direct descendant.
印度河流域文明已被所有人公認(rèn)為存在，因?yàn)槲覀冇锌脊抛C據(jù)可以證明這一點(diǎn)。
但大多數(shù)人不認(rèn)為它是歷史上的印度。印度河流域文明已經(jīng)消亡或遷徙出去，現(xiàn)代印度受到它的一些影響，但并非其直接后裔。
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Wrong, literally every south asian has indus valley dna , just go to southasianancestry and see for yourself
錯(cuò)了，幾乎每一個(gè)南亞人都有印度河流域文明的DNA，你自己去SouthAsianAncestry網(wǎng)站看看就知道了。
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Like I said we share things but ivc is not Indian History. They migrated out and ivs died just like ancient roman and egyptian civilisations.
You will find Aryan DNA as well in North Indians doesn’t mean we are Iranians. Same goes for Chengis Khan the half of world is not Mongol.
就像我說的，我們共享著一些東西，但印度河流域文明并非印度歷史。他們遷徙出去了，印度河流域文明就像古羅馬和埃及文明一樣消亡了。
你會(huì)在北印度人身上發(fā)現(xiàn)雅利安人的DNA，但這并不意味著我們是伊朗人。成吉思汗也是一樣，并非半個(gè)世界都是蒙古人。
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India's history is very famous. The Taj Mahal is probably one of the most recognized monuments in the world.
What I suspect you mean is the BCE history of India. Ancient India's history is less famous because there are very few monuments for people to admire. The best we have from BCE are the ruins in Mauryan ruins in Sarnath, which unless you are Indian or Buddhist, is hardly worth the expense and hassle of a trip to India.
By contrast, Greek, Roman, Egyptian and Chinese have magnificent ruins which are major tourist attractions.
印度的歷史非常有名。泰姬陵可能是世界上最知名的古跡之一。
我猜你指的是印度的公元前歷史。古代印度的歷史不太出名，因?yàn)閹缀鯖]有可供人們欣賞的古跡。我們擁有的最好的公元前遺跡是孔雀王朝的鹿野苑遺址，除非你是印度人或佛教徒，否則它幾乎不值得你花費(fèi)精力和波折前往印度。
相比之下，希臘、羅馬、埃及和中國(guó)擁有宏偉的遺址，是主要的旅游景點(diǎn)。
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Ancient Egyptian culture directly influenced many of the Mediterranean cultures including the Greeks.
The Chinese very copiously recorded their history and so it's well known. They also didn't have the issue of complete civilizational shifts like in India.
India did have a tradition of historiography, as every king would keep court historians/bards. However this tradition was clearly not as important as in other nations. However, a lot of native historiography was fancified to glorify a king or hero.
Take for example, the tale Prithviraj Raso which is supposed to be a biography of Prithviraj Chauhan. It states that Jaichand of Kannauj allied with Ghori and that Prithviraj killed Ghori.
This is directly contradicted by another tale, the Prithviraja Vijaya which contradicts much of the information in Raso.
Also, it's known that Ghori ruled for a decade after his supposed death. Furthermore, Jaichand who was an "ally" in Raso fought Ghori himself and was killed in the battle.
There was also religious historiography traditions, but many of them were mixed with myths and allegory, and a lot of them were recorded in the forms of prophecies. For example the Puranas wrote about the Greek invasions of the Gangetic plains but wrote about it in the form of prophecy. The Buddhists wrote a lot about history but whitewashed their heroes (Ashoka) and demonized their enemies (Pushyamitra Sunga and Shashanka)
But there clearly was a tradition of history, as many ancient and medi historians would write commentaries on other texts and mentioned writers who we have no idea of.
While people often exagerrate it, there was also clearly a loss of history during the Islamic invasions. Take for example Kalidasa who wrote quite a bit about figures and monarchs who lived many many centuries before him. It's clear that the history of Vedic and ancient India was still known in later times. The Jains and Kashmiris were writing about Chanakya and the Mauryans even in the 12th century. Even in non-history fields, a lot of medi Indian literature was composed of commentaries and addendums to older texts.
But by the British era, Ashoka had been forgotten.
A lot of this was due to the decline of Sanskrit literature in favor of Persian by Muslim rulers, as well as destruction of important repositories of knowledge.
Finally, the Indian climate was not conductive to maintaining books and scrolls, as the humidity would cause them to decay. Egypt on the other hand was dry and many of its records were written on papyrus and stored deep in pyramids.
But if that was the main reason, there would be no reason as I mentioned earlier for later medi writers to be writing commentaries and mentioning scholars of the Vedic and classical ages. It's clear that these records were being kept and rewritten.
While I think the destruction of Nalanda and Vikramashila was a major loss, I don't think it was as big of a loss as compared to the decline of the patronization of Sanskrit literature by Islamic rulers.
Take Kashmir for example. Even after it came under Islamic rule, Sultan Zain-ul-Abidin maintained Sanskrit patronage and Kashmiri historians like Jonaraja continued to maintain Rajatarangini. As such, Kashmir has one of the best historiographic traditions in India. Tamil history is also well documented as Tamil writers kept records and history in Sanskrit and Tamil.
But in my opinion, Indians are just not interested in history. Sanskrit literature is vast, probably one of the biggest in the world. And much of it is rotting away, untouched. If we valued history as much as engineering or math, we would probably know a lot more about our history.
古埃及文化直接影響了包括希臘人在內(nèi)的許多地中海文化。
中國(guó)人非常詳盡地記錄了他們的歷史，因此廣為人知。他們也沒有像印度那樣經(jīng)歷徹底的文明更迭。
印度確實(shí)有史學(xué)編纂的傳統(tǒng)，因?yàn)槊课粐?guó)王都會(huì)保留宮廷史官/吟游詩(shī)人。然而，這一傳統(tǒng)顯然不如其他國(guó)家那樣重要。而且，許多本土史書都被美化，以頌揚(yáng)國(guó)王或英雄。
以《普里特維拉吉·拉索》為例，它被認(rèn)為是普里特維拉吉·喬漢的傳記。它記載說卡瑙杰的杰伊昌德與古爾王朝的穆罕默德·戈里結(jié)盟，普里特維拉吉?dú)⑺懒烁昀铩?br /> 這與另一部著作《普里特維拉吉·維賈亞》直接矛盾，后者與《拉索》中的許多信息相悖。
而且，眾所周知，戈里在他被“殺死”后還統(tǒng)治了十年。此外，在《拉索》中是“盟友”的杰伊昌德親自與戈里作戰(zhàn)，并戰(zhàn)死沙場(chǎng)。
印度還有宗教史學(xué)編纂的傳統(tǒng)，但其中許多都混雜著神話和寓言，而且很多都是以預(yù)言的形式記錄的。例如，《往世書》記載了希臘人入侵恒河平原的事件，但卻是以預(yù)言的形式寫下的。佛教徒寫了很多關(guān)于歷史的著作，但美化了他們的英雄（阿育王），并將他們的敵人（普賢密多羅·巽伽和沙善迦）妖魔化。
但印度顯然存在歷史學(xué)傳統(tǒng)，因?yàn)樵S多古代和中世紀(jì)的歷史學(xué)家會(huì)撰寫對(duì)其他文本的評(píng)注，并提及我們一無(wú)所知的作家。
雖然人們經(jīng)?？浯筮@一點(diǎn)，但伊斯蘭的入侵，也確實(shí)造成了歷史的遺失。以迦梨陀娑為例，他寫了很多關(guān)于在他之前許多個(gè)世紀(jì)的人物和君主的著作。很明顯，吠陀時(shí)期和古代印度的歷史在后世仍然為人所知。耆那教徒和克什米爾人在12世紀(jì)仍在撰寫關(guān)于查納基亞和孔雀王朝的著作。即使在非歷史領(lǐng)域，許多中世紀(jì)的印度文學(xué)作品也是對(duì)古代文本的評(píng)注和附錄。
但在英國(guó)統(tǒng)治時(shí)期，阿育王已經(jīng)被遺忘。
這在很大程度上是由于穆斯林統(tǒng)治者使用波斯語(yǔ)而導(dǎo)致梵語(yǔ)文學(xué)衰落，以及重要的知識(shí)寶庫(kù)遭到破壞。
最后，印度的氣候不利于保存書籍和卷軸，因?yàn)槌睗駮?huì)導(dǎo)致它們腐爛。另一方面，埃及氣候干燥，許多記錄都寫在紙莎草紙上，深藏在金字塔中。
但如果這是主要原因，正如我之前提到的，后來(lái)的中世紀(jì)作家就沒有理由撰寫評(píng)注并提及吠陀和古典時(shí)代的學(xué)者了。很明顯，這些記錄一直在被保存和重寫。
雖然我認(rèn)為那爛陀寺和超戒寺的摧毀是一個(gè)重大損失，但我認(rèn)為與伊斯蘭統(tǒng)治者對(duì)梵語(yǔ)文學(xué)的贊助減少相比，它造成的損失要小得多。
以克什米爾為例。即使在克什米爾處于伊斯蘭統(tǒng)治之下后，蘇丹宰因-烏爾-阿比丁仍然維持了對(duì)梵語(yǔ)的贊助，像喬納拉賈這樣的克什米爾歷史學(xué)家繼續(xù)維護(hù)著《王室編年史》。因此，克什米爾擁有印度最好的史學(xué)編纂傳統(tǒng)之一。泰米爾歷史也有很好的記錄，因?yàn)樘┟谞栕骷矣描笳Z(yǔ)和泰米爾語(yǔ)保存了記錄和歷史。
但在我看來(lái)，印度人只是對(duì)歷史不感興趣。梵語(yǔ)文學(xué)浩如煙海，可能是世界上最大的文學(xué)寶庫(kù)之一。其中大部分都在腐爛，無(wú)人問津。如果我們像重視工程學(xué)或數(shù)學(xué)一樣重視歷史，我們可能會(huì)對(duì)我們的歷史了解更多。
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Well Indians themselves don’t like Indian history. We often disregard it or conflate our mythologies with our history.
Yea there’s a certain western fascination other countries histories but we straight up disregard the many facets of it and give it the treatment of a school textbook designed to be forgotten.
好吧，印度人自己也不喜歡印度歷史。我們經(jīng)常無(wú)視它，或者把我們的神話和歷史混為一談。
是的，西方人對(duì)其他國(guó)家的歷史有一定的迷戀，但我們（印度人）直接無(wú)視了歷史的方方面面，并像對(duì)待一本注定要被遺忘的學(xué)校教科書一樣對(duì)待它。
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How about we just take that as a giant hint that the sub continent is not that interesting to the rest of the world and finally stop over glorifying ourselves just to satisfy the collective national ego and start taking steps that would make us relevant in the current & the future world? Naaahh we know that’s not gonna happen realistically so let’s just continue coming up with hyper-victim tactics.
不如我們就把這（指之前討論的印度歷史在世界范圍內(nèi)知名度不高）當(dāng)作一個(gè)巨大的暗示，即次大陸對(duì)世界其他地方來(lái)說并沒有那么有趣，并最終停止為了滿足集體民族自尊心而過度美化自己，并開始采取能夠使我們?cè)诋?dāng)前和未來(lái)世界變得重要的措施？唉，我們知道這在現(xiàn)實(shí)中不會(huì)發(fā)生，所以我們還是繼續(xù)發(fā)明/捏造過度受害的策略吧。
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Egypt is closer to Europe and several european powers ruked Egypt in ancient times to modern era. Also Europeans explored egypt alot during different times, hency the western fascination. China is famous due to Chineae threat that West feels and also Chinese media and movies also opened their culture to west. Same cant be said about India
埃及離歐洲更近，而且從古代到近代，有好幾個(gè)歐洲強(qiáng)國(guó)都統(tǒng)治過埃及。歐洲人在不同時(shí)期也對(duì)埃及進(jìn)行了大量的探索，因此西方對(duì)埃及的迷戀就產(chǎn)生了。中國(guó)之所以出名，是因?yàn)槲鞣礁惺艿搅藖?lái)自中國(guó)的威脅，而且中國(guó)媒體和電影也將他們的文化向西方開放。同樣的情況不能用在印度身上。
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I would say most people are more fascinated with modern Japan rather than Japanese history as a whole.
我想說的是，大多數(shù)人更著迷于現(xiàn)代日本，而不是整個(gè)日本歷史。
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Indian history is not famous due, propaganda, vested interests, and euro centric supremicism.
Chinese history is more popular because they have an organized effort to push their narrative, and they have a spine.
Egypt is famous because of its relation to abrahamics.
印度歷史之所以不出名，是因?yàn)樾麄?、既得利益和歐洲中心主義的優(yōu)越感。
中國(guó)歷史更受歡迎，是因?yàn)樗麄冇薪M織地推動(dòng)他們的敘事，而且他們有骨氣。
埃及之所以出名，是因?yàn)樗c亞伯拉罕諸教的關(guān)系。